I am essentially in agreement with what you're proposing here. i especially want to emphasize the creation of cooperatives simply because they're economic forms which REQUIRE democratic participation and governance in ways not require, or not even possible, with capitalistic enterprises. Some of the programs offered by SNCC and the Black Panther Party can (with some modification in light of contemporary realities) be still relevant and useful. And they can help[ us lessen whyite capitalist economic power over our communities. The only problem is that there must also be changes in the larger society--fundamental changes. Hence our politics--and by politics I don't mean just electoral politics--must also master the art of useful alliances. While I do not share the same degree of animosity toward liberals as does Abdurratin (since the Right is obviously FAR worst), I wold not rely on them when it comes to FUNDAMENTAL social transformation either. And Dr. King himself argued in WHERE DO WE GO FROM HERE, CHAOS OR COMMUNITY that the old liberal coalitions were not likely to work any longer. You may recall that he argues that as our movememnt was transitioning from the fight for constitutional rights to the fight for HUMAN RIGHTS (as Malcolm had argued), a new more revolutionary thrust would have to characterize not only the internal politics of the Black struggle, but also the kind of alliances would would have to make in the future. The liberal coalitions under liberal Democrat administrations (which hardly exist any longer) might have been useful during the EARLY phase of the Civil Rights Movement, but not much after. And it is now LONG after. I am interested in both internal Black political and intellectual efforts which have a revolutionary character. And at least a revolutionary potential must be there in the multiracial alliances which we may opt for in the future. I am convionced that Dr. King was right that we need a "radical revolution of values" and a "radical redistributiion of political economic power."
-Savant
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India has a parliamentary style democracy which, as far as I can tell, is not a religious state. it is predominantly Hindu. And it would hardly surprise if Hinduism influences politics as Christianity influences our politics here. But just as the USA is predominantly Christian wihout having a Christian state, India seems to be predominantly Hindu without a Hindu state.(Some of my preogrssive Indian students do express concerns about the rise of a kind of Hindu fundamentalism which seeks to become political as Islam is in some predominantly Muslim countries). The nearest in comparison in the Muslim world to Indian democracy that I can think of was the Iran which Mossadegh and his supporters were trying to create until our scumbag CIA sabotaged him by means of a military coup. The damage there may have been far greater than we imagine, and not just for Iran. Had Mossadeg succeeded Iran might be today the most progressive nation in the Middle East, and an example for other Muslim countries and progressives in those countries. As one of my Iranian coed philosop[hy students put it: "Dr. Savant, if it had not been for America's CIA there would have been no Shah and most likely no Khoumeini. And my family would not be in exile. Thank you very much America for your example as leader of the free world."
-Savant
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An equal number of Black people voted for Lyndon Johnson and Bill Clinton, who are obviously not Black. No "Black racism" was involved, and your repetition of this claim continually made by white racists indicates that you are yourself a white racist or a white racist Negro. The only people who even question Obama's academic competence--claiming that he didn't even pass the bar--are white racists. Mainly, you have an Uncle Tom mentality if you think Obama is worst than those presidents who EXTERMINATED Native Americans, enslaved African Americans, raped the Philippines (with 500,000 Filipino casualties), armed fascistic apartheid South Africa to the teeth, destroyed democracy in Guatemala during the 1950s, toppled democracies and democratically elected statesmen like Patrice Lumumba, Mossadegh, Allende, etc. No real socialist, Marxist or non-Marxist, would mistake Obama a socialist or a Marxist. Nobody who is familiar with the ideas of Marx or Obama would mistake Obama for a Marxist.
I've yet to find even ONE REAL MARXIST who regards Obama as being among their number. And as someone who teaches Philosophy--and Marx was a philosopher deeply formed by the Enlightenment, German Idealism and Greek philosophy--I can generally tell pretty quickly what philosophical or ideological tendency is central to one's thinking. Moreover, I've read BOTH Marx (and some Marxists)and Obama; you HAVE NOT. So, I think it's not unreasonable to dismiss your opinions on this matter. Marx was one of the great modern philosophers. And as is the case with other philosophers as well, you might find that reading Marx will not only cure you of insomnia, but also of a certain obtuseness
-Savant
http://www.topix.com/forum/afam/T7A5SSUSHTH1FR934/p14
http://www.topix.net/forum/city/indialantic-fl/T6090PF10PL8ALV2D/p30
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Oh, there are a lot of presidents even worse that GW Bush. Obama I consider to be mediocre. He's actually HIGHLY intelligent, well read, and with some background in progressive struggles as a YOUTH. But he's like a lot of FORMER progressives and revolutionaries I know who latter went into politics. Too many deals, too many compromises, and eventually there little commitment left to the progressive ideals of their youth besides occasional lip service. Some older brothers in Bmore--I could introduce you to some of them--who were staunch civil rights warriors, Black Panthers (original ones), fighters for the poor and the oppressed, are now singing a different tune. Occasionally they have a flash of moral consciousness, a flash of the old social consciousness when some especially offensive injustice has happened. We saw this with Obama in relation to the arrest of Skip Gates and the murder and exoneration of the murderer of Trayvon Martin. But those flashes of consciousness don't seem to last. Obama COULD have been a great President, perhaps akin to a Lincoln or the "Black FDR" that some liberals and progressives hoped he would be. It's too late now even if he wanted to. That train has left the station. And his comments about economic inequality is too little, too late. Still only white racists and buck dancing black buffoons thank that Obama is the WORST president ever. REASON has nothing to do with their opinions.
-Savant
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I doubt that the ruling class is trying to put down the emergence of the Convention Peoples Party because you're to marginal to be concerned with. Probably not even 1% of Black people in America even know you exist. You're not like SNCC or the Black Panther Party in their heyday. As for Obama, even those things you say which has an "element" of truth, they can be said about nearly ALL political leaders, and about many even more so than about Obama. Hence you SPECIAL animosity against Obama can't be due simply to his lackluster record. There's definitely an element of anti-Black racism there, and even anti-progressivism even though most progressives will tell you that Obama is NOT one. Notice that I am angry with Obama because of the WEAKNESS of his health care"reform" which still leaves the corporate system intact, and the public with no non-corporate option. Universal single payer should have happened, or at least the public option. Reactionaries are against health care reform altogether.
Corporate domination is ok with them, thanks you very much. Black (and other) progressives think his interventions with the case of Gates or his comments regarding Trayvon were too little, too late. Reactionaries have the effrontery to accuse Obama of being a "black racist" simply because of his absurdly mild criticisms of white racism. The problem you reactionaries have with Obama is that he's not right wing as you. Our problem is that he is TOO RIGHT WING already! And so is the Democratic Party, mainly because it clings to the center--a center that has been shifting to the Right since the time of Nixon and Reagan. You reactionaries are heading toward an American Fascism, and want to take the country with you. You must be stopped, even if it comes down to armed confrontation (should all peaceful means fail). Our fight against you reactionaries is like the fight against Slavery described by Wendell Phillips: " This is a fight of civilization against barbarism."
-Savant
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I not only have a position, but effectively critiqued and destroyed your idea the "racism" of Blacks is evidenced by Blacks voting for Obama. Due to your racist arrogance, and your intellectual incapacity to answer my critique, you simply took the attitude of being dismissive and repeating your refuted position.\ 95% of Blacks voted for LBJ and for Bill Clinton. Your problem with Obama are not the LEGITIMATE problems that a progressive and honest citizen might have. Your REAL problem is with him is racial. And you express your racism while projecting it on others. Whites tend to devolve because of their immersion in racism, which often takes the form of subservience to conservatism---which today means most often the Republican Party. When the Democrats were the MOST RIGHT WING PARTY (at least in the South), they were embraced by the same kind of people whom now embrace the Republican Party. When Goldwater came out against the Civil Rights laws--thereby guaranteeing that at LEAST 90--95% of Blacks would vote for Johnson in 1964---we saw the beginnings of the movement of racist white Dixiecrats voters and politicians to the Republican Party.(Ironically, my parents vote for Spiros Agnew, with some regret, because Md. Democrats ran the segregationist Mahoney for governor. This was the first and last time they voted Republican). Nixon's "southern strategy" and Reagan's thinly veiled racist appeals helped to consolidate reactionary and ignorant white voters behind the Republican banner. No wonder a KKK GRAND DRAGON stated that the Reagan platform couldn't be any better unless it was written by the Klan.
As for affirmative action, it is an effort--inadequate though it has been--to redress damages inflicted by centuries of racism. Hence the logic of it is antiracist. Interestingly enough, Dr. KIng--whom you like to appeal to without understanding--also FAVORED affirmative action, often on both racial and class grounds. He compares it to the reform measures taken in India to redress the damage done to the "untouchable." (Try READING King and studying some work by King scholars, you nitwit. Start with WHY WE CAN'T WAIT) Most opponents of affirmative action have been, like you, white racists crying about racism. As for Obama's qualifications they were as good as average, maybe BETTER than average, considering that most American presidents have been mediocre--or LESS. He's certainly one of the best educated persons to occupy the office. He HAD to be to get elected.
White privilege might allow a white moron to get elected, but Blacks don't have that privilege. My objection to Obama is that he had an historic opportunity to lead the nation--albeit against stiff racist and reactionary opposition--in a more progressive and humane direction. He COULD have been, as Colin Powell mistakenly called him, a TRANSFORMATIONAL leader. But he settled for being mere another transactional politician with the usual political deals He could have inspired progressivism, but instead helped to contain it. Now he talks, like Dr. King, about economic inequality and economic justice. Fine. Only it's too little, too late.
-Savant
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Some people have a capacity for sheer human stupidity that is not to be underestimated. So, there were Frenchmen and Poles who collaborated with the Nazi occupation. There were even Jews who collaborated. There were South African Blacks like Chief Buthelezi who collaborated with the apartheid regime. And even the famous 300 Spartans were betrayed by a fellow Greek called Ephialtes. The labor movement had its sell outs. Under patriarchy it is often women who exercise the task of policing young girls and training them to a life of subservience And have we forgotten those AA traitors who worked with COINTELPRO to infiltrate and destroy the civil rights movement, Malcolm's OAAU, and the Black Panther Party? If you begin a movement for freedom, or if you're just trying to survive a situation of oppression, know that there will be traitors in your midst.
-Savant
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True. While growing up in the projects of East Baltimore I was exposed to few whites other than merchants, cops and slumlords. It hardly occurred to me to date or marry a white person. Even while at Vanderbilt University, which brought continual exposure to whites on a more regular basis, I had little interest in them socially. I think I dated two or three white females (one in France) in my entire life, and never sought a relationship. I'm not OPPOSED to IR relations, but simply wasn't interested in going there. Even the non-AA woman to whom I was once married was a BLACK Latina from Dominican Republic. My beloved Mia is a beautiful AA sister from Louisiana who--ironically--I may not have met had it not been for Hurricane Katrina. And while I was single I actually dated more sisters from Africa and the Caribbean than white. In short, my preferences for relationship and marriage didn't really change when I moved from the "hood" to the professional middle class. I'm more like Denzel or Barack than Tiger or Justice Thomas.
-Savant
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HITLER and BLACKS
People in this forum, as well as the one which states that Blacks NEED a Black Hitler, ought to be aware of Hitler's attitudes toward Blacks....Also what happened to Blacks in Germany. Many of your probably don't know that there was an anti-Black Holocause in Germany. Recently, a book has been written on it called HITLER'S BLACK VICTIMS. Hans Massaquoi, a man of African descent who survived Hitler murderous rage, has written an autobiography recently. I forget the title, however. Hans Massquoi survived Hitler, came to the USA in about 1950, and for years wrote for EBONY magazine. Two of my colleagues who are historians confirm what I've been reading and hearing about the destruction of the Blacks of Germany. One of my colleagues who is a historian suggested that there may have been as many as 25,000 Blacks (mainly Africans, and children of African men and German women) until Hitler destroyed them. If Hitler had won the war there would not be 37 milllion Blacks in America today. We ould almost cetainly have disappeared before I was born. Dr. King would not have survived adolescence to lead any civil rights movement. And, obviously, would be no Barack Obama, nor a percipient philosopher and man of letters like Savant. People who admire Hitler are twisted. And any Black who even suggests the idea of a Black Hitler ought to be put under psychiatric care. If you admire the legacy of King, Fred Douglass, Fannie Lou Hamer and W.E.B. Du Bois, then you cannot also consistently think in terms of a Hitler-type leader as desirable.
-Savant
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All wrote: Two reasons MLK was murdered. April 4, 1967 he voiced his opposition to the vietnam war and one year to the date, April 4, 1968 he was shot in the "mouth". That's what they infer when they call us cry babies and whining. The second reason was the Poor People March on D.C. The "powers and principalities in high places" will never allow equality in sny form to upset their pluto democratic system. JFK was murdered partially due to allowing black people to march on D.C. in August 1963.
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attai1 wrote: Sir, I don't think Barack Obama is any indication of real "Black Power" in the USA. The posts above signed "All" and those by sir Savant are destroying any illusion that the present incumbent of the still basically "white" House has ever pushed forward any Black agenda, not even strong reforms to improve the situation of Black Americans. The Health care reform, so botched up by the Democratic Congress even before the Boehner guerilla, has basically been the only credit Obama has in this direction and it is extremely limited. Definitely he has not been the Black F.D. Roosevelt you could see on a famous 2009 poster. But as you say this presidency is going to sleep now : we can fear both a dreadful Hillary candidacy or any whitey revengeful Rep lunatic. Obama has done nearly nothing but his simple existence has stirred the putrid anti-Black nature of the USA. The more I read Solomon Northup's 1853 book, the more it is obvious to me. How do you personally and your party see the rise of a possible Black Superpower ? I feel it would be a great step forward for the whole earth and could happen during this XXIst century but we're still very far from it in 2014. - a euro-whiteboi
-Savant
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http://www.huppi.com/kangaroo/L-auspoli.htm
